[icespeed]

hey Ivan, are you saying that you can stop them from doing whatever they want?

( I apologise in advance. I'm in a mood for a fight today.)

Kellan. History repeats itself. Oh, the exact events may not, but all wars end the same: in a lot of dead bodies. Politics gets one man the head position and another man loses it. Empires rise and fall, and people's lives go on. The exact details aren't important when you're looking at people's lives. Will anyone remember what you did a thousand years from now? Will anyone remember what Bush did? Oh, they might say he was an idiot for doing whatever, but it's not going to be important to them, not vital the way it is to us now.
Look at the big picture.

[Tiara]

Originally posted by Kellan


Yeah. Fight the Power, as some people said.

-New sniper smilie! (Shotgun actually )

BTW - Don't take this erious...

[Kellan]

Originally posted by icespeed
Kellan. History repeats itself. Oh, the exact events may not, but all wars end the same: in a lot of dead bodies. Politics gets one man the head position and another man loses it. Empires rise and fall, and people's lives go on. The exact details aren't important when you're looking at people's lives. Will anyone remember what you did a thousand years from now? Will anyone remember what Bush did? Oh, they might say he was an idiot for doing whatever, but it's not going to be important to them, not vital the way it is to us now.
Look at the big picture.

Precisely what I'm syaing is not to look at the big picture. Well, not exactly. I don't want to know what colour hair the leaders had or anything, but the reasons for war, and the rise and fall of empires and so on all change subtly.

[icespeed]

reason for war?
1. I want more land.
2. The people (I) need more land.
3. I don't like the other guy.
4. The other guy's invading me.
5. I'm a crazy fanatic.

If you can think of any more, tell me.

[icespeed]

it occurred to me this would be the right thread to ask it in, and ive been wondering.

does anyone know how big Iraq is? In square k's, preferably?

[Tiara]

Originally posted by icespeed
it occurred to me this would be the right thread to ask it in, and ive been wondering.

does anyone know how big Iraq is? In square k's, preferably?

This is the best I can do :

[icespeed]

...
so does anyone know how big Israel is, then?

[Tiara]

20,330 sq km

[icespeed]

I estimate Iraq to be about ten times Israel, a bit less, I think. So bout 200,000ksquare?

Thanks, anyway. Now, anyone know how long it takes to fly a fighter plane at cruising speed across that?

[Tiara]

Cruising speed +/- 670 km/h (not fighter plane though)(So that other ppl can calculate it Too tireds right now...)

Fighter plane cruising speed = 800 mph / 1,300 km/h...

[icespeed]

bout 200hrs.

Hey, if you're tired, go to bed. Sleep. If you have school tomorrow, don't wake up unless you have an exam. In which case, wake up, panic and then go to sleep again. Or, if you have free periods, go to school and sleep. If you have work, go to work and sleep.

Thanks again. Gonna go now, it's 10:30pm over here and i need to go "study". seeya later

love always God bless you
icespeed
(ps. sorry if I accidentally derailed the topic...)

[Sandwich]

Originally posted by icespeed
...
so does anyone know how big Israel is, then?

Well, on a clear day, I can see Jordan to the west and would be able to see the ocean to the east if I had line-of-sight.

For more scientific data, how many times do I have to tell you that Atomica rules? I just typed in "Israel", and I get, among other things, this:

Geography Location: Middle East, bordering the Mediterranean Sea, between Egypt and Lebanon Geographic coordinates: 31 30 N, 34 45 E Area: total: 20,770 sq km land: 20,330 sq km water: 440 sq km Land boundaries: total: 1,006 km border countries: Egypt 255 km, Gaza Strip 51 km, Jordan 238 km, Lebanon 79 km, Syria 76 km, West Bank 307 km Coastline: 273 km Climate: temperate; hot and dry in southern and eastern desert areas Terrain: Negev desert in the south; low coastal plain; central mountains; Jordan Rift Valley Natural resources: copper, phosphates, bromide, potash, clay, sand, sulfur, asphalt, manganese, small amounts of natural gas and crude oil

Bah! While I'm at it I might as well look up Iraq, too:

Geography Location: Middle East, bordering the Persian Gulf, between Iran and Kuwait Geographic coordinates: 33 00 N, 44 00 E Area: total: 437,072 sq km land: 432,162 sq km water: 4,910 sq km Land boundaries: total: 3,631 km border countries: Iran 1,458 km, Jordan 181 km, Kuwait 242 km, Saudi Arabia 814 km, Syria 605 km, Turkey 331 km Coastline: 58 km Climate: mostly desert; mild to cool winters with dry, hot, cloudless summers; northern mountainous regions along Iranian and Turkish borders experience cold winters with occasionally heavy snows that melt in early spring, sometimes causing extensive flooding in central and southern Iraq Terrain: mostly broad plains; reedy marshes along Iranian border in south with large flooded areas; mountains along borders with Iran and Turkey Natural resources: petroleum, natural gas, phosphates, sulfur

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Originally posted by icespeed
hey Ivan, are you saying that you can stop them from doing whatever they want?

No, i am saying that doing nothing will result in them doing anything they want.

Being interested in politics and keeping up to date, as well as doing ones democratic duty (voting or more) with as many people as possible does have an effect.

Very few individuals have the poser or strenght to influence policy, but when in group you can achieve anything. And politicians know that, and becuase of that they'll listen to you (and your group) because you have the power to vote them out.

Originally posted by icespeed
Kellan. History repeats itself. Oh, the exact events may not, but all wars end the same: in a lot of dead bodies.

hehe. War does not determine who's right, only who's left.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Originally posted by Tiara


This is the best I can do :

hehe, I wonder if anyone will understand this one....


We, Cyrus the Great of Persia, give to the people of Isreal the right to return to their lands and live their lives in peace as subjects of us, the Emperor of Persia..





edit: forgot a word

[Sandwich]

Originally posted by Crazy_Ivan80


hehe, I wonder if anyone will understand this one....


We, Cyrus the Great of Persia, give to the people of Isreal the right to return to their lands and live their in peace as subjects of us, the Emperor of Persia..

Hehehe - I do. Nice one.

[Zeronet]

Originally posted by Tiara
In this thread I have seen the worst stupidity ever (Not by all of you though ) Some of you are talking as if Hussein is a push over... Even if we might win the war, have you ever thought about the impact that it would cause?

• Economical crisis in the middle east (As far as it wasn't already like that) wich will affect the entire world.
• If a single Muslim is killed every muslim in the western world will surely rebel.
• If a single Muslim is killed every terrorist faction will become 'very active'.
• Thousands of soldiers will die and chemical gasses WILL be used by Saddams army.
• I could go on but you got the point (I hope).

Sure, Saddam is a pain in the backside... But you can't just overrun him. I'm sure there are enough 'fanatical' Muslims in America to perform suicide bombing... Maybe more American/European citizens would die then ppl in the middle east. [/B]

:wtf:

First point may have some relevance
Second and third point: :wtf: Did you know, thousands of taliban were killed, we shot em. Yet the muslim world didnt rebel, because not all Muslins are fanatics! A very large number arent raving lunitics who killed christians if they step on muslim land.
Fourth point: NBC suit, and pills.
Last point: They really arent that powerful, the simple closure of healthrow airport prevented Bin laden from hijacking planes and flying them into buildings in London. Their planning to attack all the time anyway, what we do will change that yes, because we'll prevent them inside of sitting idly by.

[an0n]

Simple facts:

• Even if Iraq is makinge black-hole bombs and super-nova cannons, America has no right to attack them. The only people with any legitimate reason to even speak harshly to Iraq is the UN........and maybe Kuwait
• There is NO evidence that Iraq is/has/ever will be involved with Al Qeda.
• There is NO evidence to suggest that Iraq has or ever will have biological, nuclear or chemical weapons more advanced than every other piss-ant, powerless, politically poisonous country.
• Despite Americas protestations that Saddam is evil and nasty, it's got **** all to do with them. So he pissed off a few countries and attacked a few neighbours, that doesn't give America the right to dictate the leadership of the country.

After WW1 they entered an isolationist period and basically told the world they didn't give a **** and they could go rot under Nazi rule. Now they think that, despite allowing 6 million people to be slaughtered, they can take the morale high-ground and guilt others into and telling them they're evil if they let billions of poor Iraqis get butchered every hour. **** that. If they want to pick fights with other countries they can do it the same as every other world power; only with UN approval.

[Tiara]

Originally posted by Zeronet




First point may have some relevance



Second and third point: Did you know, thousands of taliban were killed, we shot em. Yet the muslim world didnt rebel, because not all Muslins are fanatics! A very large number arent raving lunitics who killed christians if they step on muslim land.

Taliban = Terrorists. Even normal Muslims see that. But Iraq citizens are no terrorists and ppl will be angry and probably riot... (Comparing the Taliban with true Muslims pfffff)

Fourth point: NBC suit, and pills.

Sure... That would cost so much that even the American war budget would be almost depleted. And I don't think those suits would improve combat...

Last point: They really arent that powerful, the simple closure of healthrow airport prevented Bin laden from hijacking planes and flying them into buildings in London. Their planning to attack all the time anyway, what we do will change that yes, because we'll prevent them inside of sitting idly by.

DAMN your ignorant...

1). Not powerfull usually means guerilla war and is hard to defend against.
2). You really think that they are only at the healthrow airport? You'd need to virtually close ALL airports.
 

[Top Gun]

Originally posted by an0n
SAfter WW1 they entered an isolationist period and basically told the world they didn't give a **** and they could go rot under Nazi rule. Now they think that, despite allowing 6 million people to be slaughtered, they can take the morale high-ground and guilt others into and telling them they're evil if they let billions of poor Iraqis get butchered every hour. **** that. If they want to pick fights with other countries they can do it the same as every other world power; only with UN approval.

Eh? US corporations sold Hitler about half of his steel, half of his pig iron and half of his explosives. They were partially responsible for Nazi Germany's military machiene. The Industrialists who sold them it were all raging anti semites (Ford, GM, IBM and the Rockefeller family). There were Nazi style forced sterilizations, brain washing (in the form of compulsive schooling - www.johntaylorgatto.com ) and other atrocities carried out in the USA at the time of Hitler's rule. Any country could have gone fascist at that time, including the US.

[Zeronet]

The Taliban are mostly dead and the terrorist attacks on September 11th were condemed by many muslims all over the world. Iraqi citizens are governed by a regime that is based on fear and intimidation, his body guards and troops keep the people in line, the No fly Zone exists to prevent Saddamn bombing his own people. What your doing is believing the state controlled TV that says everyone loves Saddamn. The Telegraph may not be totally neutral, but at least it can say whatever it wants and isnt forced to print poems wrote by Tony Blair.

NBC suits expensive? My Local RAF cadet unit has them. They had them in the Gulf war, they arent expensive at all.


Did you catch onto the fact that Heathrow Airport WAS closed down, as was every other airport and NO terrorist attack happened. Did you ever stop to think mabye the Iraqi people dont like living in fear, dont like having an insane leader who actively seeks weapons of mass destruction and who tried to build a supercannon to attack nations around him. The People of Iraq want him gone, Saddamn saying about no surrender etc is just his propaganda. Iraq doesnt need occupying, it wont be, Saddamn will be killed and a democractic government installed and his weapons of mass destruction removed.

Also Saddamn wont let Weapons inspectors back in. His stalling action wont last forever, they said no to them returning. If they have Nothing to hide they'd let them back in, thing is they do and thus they wont accept the order from the UN.