Author Topic: Matrix: Revolutions  (Read 29056 times)

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Offline Razor

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Did anyone listen to the soundtrack?
Man it's awesome. You gotta love the Neodammerung.

 

Offline Knight Templar

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Have it. I was a little dissappointed at how lacking it was. I mean, there were the regular uber-don davis compositions, and Navras, but there was no sign of outside artists and two worthy contributions by Juno Reactor. I think it had way too much cinematic music that isn't always that great to listen to on it's own. (Baring the major fight musics)
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Offline ZylonBane

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Quote
Originally posted by Stunaep
How on earth could you have enjoyed Revolutions more than you did Reloaded.
I think it's because I liked the structure of Revolutions better. Unfortunately the details supporting the structure sucked.

The chain of events in Reloaded was so painfully contrived, it was like something directly out of a video game. The whole movie had Our Heroes running from point A to point B to point C, battling a mini-boss here and there (who always knew they were coming), collecting items for their quest, and culminating with one of the laziest cliches of gaming, the timed sequence.

If The One walking through that door was essential to the survival of the Matrix, you'd think the Architect would make getting to it a more straightforward affair. Like maybe, just knock?
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He had to be sure that only the One would be capable of it.  Besides, everyone would be just a bit suspicious if the key to 'ending the war permanently' was, metaphorically speaking, left on a big pedestal in plain view with a neon sign saying 'This is it!' suspended above it.
'And anyway, I agree - no sig images means more post, less pictures. It's annoying to sit through 40 different sigs telling about how cool, deadly, or assassin like a person is.' --Unknown Target

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Offline Bobboau

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yet were suposed to just accept that all that crap he can do is be case... he just can
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Offline Singh

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Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
yet were suposed to just accept that all that crap he can do is be case... he just can


Umm......yeah.
Its not reality, just a story, and as stories are supposed to go, its exaggeration and makes the audience go "ooooooh...that's cool"
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Offline Dark_4ce

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Noo! Its all real! I believe it! Don't say its not! AAARGH!

*Jumps out of window.*

"Neo I believe!" *Splat*

But I agree with you. Its just a movie in the end. With many plot holes. Oh well.
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Offline Singh

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Quote
Originally posted by Dark_4ce
Noo! Its all real! I believe it! Don't say its not! AAARGH!

*Jumps out of window.*

"Neo I believe!" *Splat*

But I agree with you. Its just a movie in the end. With many plot holes. Oh well.


Still doesn't change the fact that the spectacular action scenes and the last stand (at least for a last stand based on Earth rather than space) in particular make it a damn good movie. :D
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Offline Stunaep

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what spectacular action scene? Surely not the boring robots-shooting-at-robots-with-men shootfest, with absolutely no emotion whatsover, and that dragged on for about three weeks (or so it seemed)?
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Offline ZylonBane

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Quote
Originally posted by Singh
Umm......yeah.
Its not reality, just a story
Stories are supposed to abide by their own rules. The premise of the Matrix, however unlikely, was firmly defined-- People made machines, machines took over, made people into batteries. Any super powers in the Matrix come from exploiting it. Outside the Matrix, people are just ordinary, everyday people. That is the premise the first film hammered into us.

The end of Reloaded then discarded that premise. The new rule from that point onward was merely, "Anything goes". And as a wise writer once asked, "If anything can happen, why should I care?".


And on a complete tangent, I only recently tweaked to the fact that since only humans are jacked into the Matrix, that means that every single animal is actually a program. Yeah, I'm slow sometimes.

Kinda makes you want to keep an eye on your dog though. And so much for trying to communicate with dolphins.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2003, 11:27:58 am by 264 »
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Offline Su-tehp

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Quote
Originally posted by ZylonBane
And on a complete tangent, I only recently tweaked to the fact that since only humans are jacked into the Matrix, that means that every single animal is actually a program. Yeah, I'm slow sometimes.

Kinda makes you want to keep an eye on your dog though. And so much for trying to communicate with dolphins.


You mean that all that time when I went to SeaWorld and those dolphins sprayed me with their blowholes, you mean it was actually the Machines in the Real World trying to tell me something??? :eek2: :eek: :shaking: :nervous: :D
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Offline Dark_4ce

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Then what does it mean when my dog tries to hump my leg?

:nervous:...What?
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Offline aldo_14

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It means you may want to wash your trousers.

 

Offline Levyathan

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Quote
Originally posted by ZylonBane
And on a complete tangent, I only recently tweaked to the fact that since only humans are jacked into the Matrix, that means that every single animal is actually a program. Yeah, I'm slow sometimes.

So you missed the conversation between Neo and the Oracle in Reloaded?

 

Offline Rictor

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9 PAGES?!   HAVE YOU PEOPLE NO MERCY!!


I'de really like someone to respond to my giganto-post cause it would suck if everyone was simply tired of discussing this stuff and I just read 9 pages for nothing. Also, please forgive the multiple spelling errors which are bound to occur in  post this size. I am not a very good speller when I'm typing fast, but as long as you get the point of what I'm tring to say...  


A list of my general beef with the Matrix logic:

-If you know that the Matrix isn't real, then nothing can harm you. If you get shot, you just have to realize its not real, and they won't harm you.

-If you know the laws of gravity etc aren't real, then if you can move at speed X while living the illusion, and at speed 3X while unplugged, then why not at speed 100X or 1000X or at infinite speed. If you know the laws of physics are just an illusion, then you can totally ignore them, not just bend them slightly. Or if you like, you can bend them alot, so you move at speeds which no agent will be able to match.

-Why is Neo special? What he is able to do, he does as a result of the realisation that he can do whatever he wants in the Matrix. Wouldn't it be logical that EVERYONE else who has been unplugged has come to this same realisation? I would think that everyone would be able to be like Neo inside the Matrix and then some.

-If you simply unplugged everyone from the Matrix, then like 99.99% of people would die from starvarion, exposure or just from drowning in that big lake (or whatever) into which you get ejected. You can't very well just release 6 billions (maybe more) people out into the world, with no food, no shelter and no nothing. However, the machines would be able to survive to some degree and would most likely be able to wipe ou the rest of humanity. Simple freeing everyone insde the Matrix is not the way to win the war. Well it is, but it would also wipe out the vast majority of the human race, and the machines would mop up what was left.


OK here are my thoughts on Revolutions, in no particular order:

- I really don't have much of an opinion yet, becuase I don't understand just what the hell happened. Once I  do, I'll be more fit to judge. On the surface, it seemed like an action movie with continuity thrown to the wind. However, I think that it all fits in once you figure it out, and once you do (or someone else does, and explains it) you'll just go "Ahh, holy ****, it all makes sense, that was indeed and awesome movie"

- What happened in the end? I don't think the machines decided to just let everyone go who wanted to go. I think maybe the Oracle was reffering to programs, not humans.

-The war is over? No its not. The machines just stopped their attack on Zion. They still know where it is, they can still take it out. They still have the Matrix around. Humanity is still enslaved. The war isn't over.The only thing that has changed, is that THIS time, Zion was left in a slightly better chape that before (aka destroyed), and also the people in Zion didn't die to they have knowledge of what came before so it not all one big circle.

-Smith being able to go over into the real world seems very plausible. After all, in order for the Matrix to function, the human mind must be able to both upload and download info to the Machine Processor (the Matrix engine or whatever) and vice versa. If you're infected inside the Matrix, Smith's brain patterns (which are obviously as suffisticated as human, since the AI programs have almost all the movement/recognition/thinking capabilities of humans) are simply "written" into you brain (you physical brain)

-The Merovingian wants the eyes of the Oracle so that he can see into the future. When Smith assimilated the Oracle, you could see that when he looked around he had this amazed look on hs face, lke he saw everything in a new light. This is why he laughed (I actualy quite likd that part, it makes sense in the context) becuase he realized he had this cool new power.

-The Sentinels were flying around in big waves cause their job was to draw fire away from the diggers, until they breached the walls, and then they would really start attacking. So until the walls were breached, the Sentinels were useless so they were just decoys.

-If you can mount EMPs on ships, why not on buildings. They could easily have like 10-100 EMPS inside Zion, and they only needed 2 actually. One would be to take out the first wave, and then another to take out the second wave. It makes alot of sense for Zion to have a ton of EMP defences.

-One part that I don't understand is how Neo can control machines in the real world. One theory tha would explain this is if there were multiple Matrix layers, but this isn't the case. Even though he has machine code (or whatever) in his mind, his body is still human. And as far as I know, the human body is not capable of transimitting any signal at all, much less one that could distrupt a machine.

-The Neo-blindfold was nicely done, and it seemed to me that this was obviously a nod to some anime. You also had similar blindfolds in Last Flight of the Osiris.

-I have NO idea what happened at the end there. Was the Matrix just reset? I don' think it was.

-Neo didn't sacrifice himself, he was defeated. Or maybe, he let himself be defeated, becuase he knew the only way to kill Smith was to let himself be absorbed. Dont know.

-The choice that the Oracle was reffering to (her choice, the one she had to make), it might the following:  let Neo sacrifice himself and really achieve nothing in the end, or set him on the path that would result in him doing what every other The One has done before and just continue the circle. It was probably not too late to get on that path, and she did mention that it was harder to make a choice knowing full well the consequences, which would imply that she had made that choice before, which would imply that the previous The Ones had come to the point where it was up to the Oracle, which means that they all took the "Save Trinity" door and not the "Save Humanity" door. Which leads to my next point:

-How do we know that our Neo was different than all the previous ones by choosing the "Save Trinity" door. I don't remember the Architect ever saying which door they choose, just implying it. Or even if he did say it, he might have been lying. He is a machine afterall, and wants to work for the benefit f the machines. So "nudging" Neo towards the "Save Trinity" door would be his way of doing what was best for machine-kind, since we know that it turned out well for the machines in the end. I wonder what would have happened if Neo saw through the facade and chose the "Save Humanity" door, which might have actually been better for humanity and not worse, as the Architect implyed. The Architect also mentione that Neo was the first to manifest love, so the "Save Trinity" door might have been somthing esle for the previous The Ones (such as Save Oracle or Save Morpheus) becuase the Archtect mentioned that Neo was the first to manifest the emotion of love, but that all the previous ones had manifested some other emotion (I can remember the exact line) which might have persuaded the to not choose the "Save Humanity" door out of some emotion such as duty, honour or whatever.

________

Ok, its almost 2am and I need to take a whizz. I'de kind like to know what other people think of the little logical puzzles and whatnot.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2003, 01:22:40 am by 644 »

 

Offline Stryke 9

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Better yet, why not ignore physics long enough to throw a chair at .5c and then start paying attention to it again long enough for the chair and whatever it hits to explode nicely?

Would certainly make those agent fights a good deal cooler. Everything's better with nuclear explosions.

 

Offline Setekh

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Quote
Originally posted by ZylonBane
The chain of events in Reloaded was so painfully contrived, it was like something directly out of a video game. The whole movie had Our Heroes running from point A to point B to point C, battling a mini-boss here and there (who always knew they were coming), collecting items for their quest, and culminating with one of the laziest cliches of gaming, the timed sequence.


Dude, didn't you love beating the Merovingian Henchmen, getting the Keymaker in that awesome cutscene, and then getting onto level 5? I mean, it was seriously, just, uhh... oh, right.

[q]Or even if he did say it, he might have been lying.[/q]

Rictor, read your whole post, I agree with most of it. :) Only point that I care to raise (and which I don't remember being raised earlier on this thread) is that you have to basically take him for truth - otherwise, you can't really make any theories on anything that anyone says, because... it just all falls down. :ick
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Offline Styxx

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Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
When Smith assimilated the Oracle, you could see that when he looked around he had this amazed look on hs face, lke he saw everything in a new light. This is why he laughed (I actualy quite likd that part, it makes sense in the context) becuase he realized he had this cool new power.


Actually, I think that Smith laughed because he saw himself beating Neo in the future, not because he had those "cool new powers".

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Offline Levyathan

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Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
-If you know that the Matrix isn't real, then nothing can harm you. If you get shot, you just have to realize its not real, and they won't harm you.

The answer to this is simple: that's not how it works.
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
-If you know the laws of gravity etc aren't real, then if you can move at speed X while living the illusion, and at speed 3X while unplugged, then why not at speed 100X or 1000X or at infinite speed. If you know the laws of physics are just an illusion, then you can totally ignore them, not just bend them slightly. Or if you like, you can bend them alot, so you move at speeds which no agent will be able to match.

It's not just a matter of knowing it's a simulation. Notice the jump scene in The Matrix. At that point, Neo already knows he's inside a computer simulation, yet he is unable to ignore the laws of physics in order to get to the other building.
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
-Why is Neo special? What he is able to do, he does as a result of the realisation that he can do whatever he wants in the Matrix. Wouldn't it be logical that EVERYONE else who has been unplugged has come to this same realisation? I would think that everyone would be able to be like Neo inside the Matrix and then some.

This continues my previous point. In order to bend the rules of the simulation, you need a certain level of understanding. The whole first movie is about that, it's Neo's path to enlightenment. Being the One, he is able to 'free his mind' to degrees unimaginable to common people.
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
-If you simply unplugged everyone from the Matrix, then like 99.99% of people would die from starvarion, exposure or just from drowning in that big lake (or whatever) into which you get ejected. You can't very well just release 6 billions (maybe more) people out into the world, with no food, no shelter and no nothing. However, the machines would be able to survive to some degree and would most likely be able to wipe ou the rest of humanity. Simple freeing everyone insde the Matrix is not the way to win the war. Well it is, but it would also wipe out the vast majority of the human race, and the machines would mop up what was left.

I'm not sure what your point is. It's not like everyone was instantly freed after Revolutions.
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
- What happened in the end? I don't think the machines decided to just let everyone go who wanted to go. I think maybe the Oracle was reffering to programs, not humans.

Nope, they were talking about human beings.
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
-The war is over? No its not. The machines just stopped their attack on Zion. They still know where it is, they can still take it out. They still have the Matrix around. Humanity is still enslaved. The war isn't over.The only thing that has changed, is that THIS time, Zion was left in a slightly better chape that before (aka destroyed), and also the people in Zion didn't die to they have knowledge of what came before so it not all one big circle.

The war is over. Humanity is no longer enslaved. If you choose to stay plugged into the Matrix, it's not much of a prison anymore.
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
-If you can mount EMPs on ships, why not on buildings. They could easily have like 10-100 EMPS inside Zion, and they only needed 2 actually. One would be to take out the first wave, and then another to take out the second wave. It makes alot of sense for Zion to have a ton of EMP defences.

What about the third wave? What about the countless other waves that would attack if the previous ones were defeated? Zion never had any chance.
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
-One part that I don't understand is how Neo can control machines in the real world. One theory tha would explain this is if there were multiple Matrix layers, but this isn't the case. Even though he has machine code (or whatever) in his mind, his body is still human. And as far as I know, the human body is not capable of transimitting any signal at all, much less one that could distrupt a machine.

Neo is always connected to the Source. Through the Source he is able to manipulate machine code. That's also how he sees the machines after having his eyes burnt.
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
-I have NO idea what happened at the end there. Was the Matrix just reset? I don' think it was.

Yes, it was reloaded. Not exactly like the previous times, though.
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
-Neo didn't sacrifice himself, he was defeated. Or maybe, he let himself be defeated, becuase he knew the only way to kill Smith was to let himself be absorbed. Dont know.

I'll let you figure this out by yourself.
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
-The choice that the Oracle was reffering to (her choice, the one she had to make), it might the following:  let Neo sacrifice himself and really achieve nothing in the end, or set him on the path that would result in him doing what every other The One has done before and just continue the circle. It was probably not too late to get on that path, and she did mention that it was harder to make a choice knowing full well the consequences, which would imply that she had made that choice before, which would imply that the previous The Ones had come to the point where it was up to the Oracle, which means that they all took the "Save Trinity" door and not the "Save Humanity" door.

The choice the Oracle had to make was to help or not to help Neo. She chose to help, by letting Smith take over her.
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
-How do we know that our Neo was different than all the previous ones by choosing the "Save Trinity" door. I don't remember the Architect ever saying which door they choose, just implying it. Or even if he did say it, he might have been lying. He is a machine afterall, and wants to work for the benefit f the machines. So "nudging" Neo towards the "Save Trinity" door would be his way of doing what was best for machine-kind, since we know that it turned out well for the machines in the end. I wonder what would have happened if Neo saw through the facade and chose the "Save Humanity" door, which might have actually been better for humanity and not worse, as the Architect implyed. The Architect also mentione that Neo was the first to manifest love, so the "Save Trinity" door might have been somthing esle for the previous The Ones (such as Save Oracle or Save Morpheus) becuase the Archtect mentioned that Neo was the first to manifest the emotion of love, but that all the previous ones had manifested some other emotion (I can remember the exact line) which might have persuaded the to not choose the "Save Humanity" door out of some emotion such as duty, honour or whatever.

First of all, it was not the 'save Trinity' door. It was the 'back to the Matrix' door. The Architect never said Neo would be able to save Trinity by choosing the left door - he said said she would die no matter what door Neo chose.

Also, the previous five Ones did choose the right door. Otherwise either humanity would no longer exist or they would have found a way to break the cycle.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2003, 09:11:41 am by 155 »