Author Topic: Fallujah, Fecal Matter, and the fan  (Read 28591 times)

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Offline Martinus

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Quote
Originally posted by Shrike:
Kazan, if you don't stop with your attitude you're going to be taking a bit of a vacation. There's absolutely no excuse for it. You're supposed to be an adult. Act like it.

[color=66ff00]Pushing your luck Kazan?
[/color]

 

Offline Kazan

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more like i didn't see shrike's post

rictor is irritating

-----------------
edit:

that wasn't even in this thread anyway - so i probably didn't read it

FYI: threatening me is the quickest way to piss me off, and the slowest way to get the results you want
« Last Edit: April 06, 2004, 09:05:32 pm by 30 »
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Offline Rictor

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Temper temper. You know, just because you CAPS it, doesn't mean there's a better chance on me reading it.

I'll drop this matter now, but before I do, let me say this.

Contrary to what you say, there is a "correct" solution to each situation. Its the one where  morality is best served.You claim that I (and people like me) will never be satisfied with any solution, that I live to ***** and simply, well, love to hate.

Satisfying me is very, very simple. Act like every other peaceful nation on Earth. This is not ureasonable. America posseses no special skills, no special insight into human behaviour, no special rights. You are not the chose people, you are not GloboCops, you are not "a beacon of freedom" or anything of that nature.

Act like a normal, peaceful nation.

This means: no invasions, no economic imperialism (forgive my spelling, I just can't be bothered), no supporting or toppling governments in foreign nations. No manipulating the UN and NATO to do your bidding. No exploitation of foreign people and lands for the proft of American corporations. No special justice for American troops or citizens. No military bases in foreign nations. No mixing of politics and business, especially when it comes to foreign countries. No human rights violations. No rape of natural resources for short-term benefit.

I short, no special rights or privileges for American citizens, sodliers, corporations, governments and any other person or institution.

If you'de like to discuss this further, I welcome you to via PMs. If you want to do so, just give me a few hours to clean out my inbox.

 

Offline Kazan

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morality is subjective rictor - i never claim we are any of those - and often a lot of us groan when we are _ASKED_ to send troops to a place - because we know that we're going to get complained it if we send them, or if we don't

There are countries that hate our guts and wish death upon our men, women and children and yet welcome our foreign aid

No invasions? I agree - we have no reason to be in Iraq (but since we're already gone past that things should be doen right

Afghanistan was justified - but we didn't do that the right way

Economic Imperialism: so, how exactly are we not suppose to do this, no matter what it will happen even without intent (which not everyone has that intent)

No supporting or toppling governments in foreign nations? Ok when a rebellion starts in your country if your governemnt asks us for help we'll refuse - even if the revolutionarys take over and start killing anyone who disagrees with them

No 'manipulating' the UN or NATO - so basically no asking them, no trying to persuade them with arguments - because no matter what we do you could easily say that we're threatening them under the table so we're "manipulating'

No exploitation of foreign people and lands for the profit of american corporations? Same for your countries corporations - oh yeah, and be careful when calling things sweatshops - some of our companies hire foreign  workers at wages well above the poverty line of their country, but the wage is compared against the poverty line of some 1st world nation so it looks measily --- in otherwords normalize the wage for their costs

"No special jstuice for American troops of citizens" define wtf you're talking about

No military bases in freogin nations: You know some of those we're invited to, and we're not the only ones with military bases in foreign nations - sure we'll withdraw completely back into our own borders and be isolationist again, even with several countries *****ing at us because they had asked us there... (PS: last time we were isolationist two world wars happened)

No mixing of politics and business? YES - oh make sure your own governments follow that directive too

No human rights violations?  Such as circumcision [which i fight vehementy against], or breaching the constitutions protections of free speech and what not which **** has done that I protest a lot?   Then there is that entire POW thing in Cuba... which pisses me off to no end - freaking **** administration  ---- Also: make sure your own government doesn't limit human rights - do you have seperation church and state? freedom of speech, association, press? innocent until proven guilty? ad nauseum

No rape of natural resource for short-term benefits: you mean like oil reserves and ANWOIR (SP?) - talk to the **** administration - I personally am all for getting hydrogen fuel cells as fast as possible


In short: no special rights privileges for Your countries citizens, soldiers, corporations, persons or instututions.



You better make sure you're not setting up a double standard - and for the love of freedom make sure to differentiation between administrations! Oh and differentiate between the current administration and the population, and differentiation between different groups of the population that are of different opinions.



Once again Rictor: what country are you from? Are you afraid of telling me because I'll know you're being a hypocrit?
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Offline Bobboau

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and Kaz, as he didn't answer your question, IIRC he is a Serb liveing in Canada.
I think that should answer your questions.
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Offline Kazan

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oh - i should say he has answered my questions- he took everything to PM
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Offline Bobboau

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ah,
I did recal corectly then, yes?
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Offline Kazan

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Quote

I was born in Yugoslavia (Belgrade, Serbia) and my family moved to Canada when I was about 8 years old.
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Offline Gank

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Hence the touchiness about Kosovo.

 

Offline Bobboau

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understandably
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Offline Gank

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Aye, Serbia was rightly shafted there.

 

Offline karajorma

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Quote
Originally posted by Gank
Aye, Serbia was rightly shafted there.


Yep. They were. But if they hadn't been the ethnic Albanians would have been shafted.

The UN f**ked up there but then the UN has a long history of f**king things up.

The simple fact is that if they don't interfere they still get complained at. Almost everyone blames the UN/US for Rwanda because they didn't act there.

The main reason NATO interfered in Kosovo was cause of the amount of flack they got about not interfering in Bosnia quickly enough.

While going into Iraq was just plain stupidity I can see why NATO did interfere in the Balkans. My complaint is with the execution not the original idea.
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Offline aldo_14

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Quote
Originally posted by karajorma

While going into Iraq was just plain stupidity I can see why NATO did interfere in the Balkans. My complaint is with the execution not the original idea.


:nod:   My thoughts exactly.

 

Offline Gank

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Eh, Nato figure put casualties at 500 Kosovans dead because of the Serbs, 1500 because of the KLA and 500 Serbs dead from the bombing. There was no threat of genocide, the Serbian army was fighting a bunch of criminals who killed more of their own people than the Serbs.

I'm not defending Serbia, what happened in Bosnia was disgraceful, but Kosovo wasnt the same thing. Nato shouldnt have stuck their nose in, only made things worse.

 

Offline aldo_14

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http://www.unhcr.ch/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/home/+jwwBmehrhI_wwwwnwwwwwwwhFqo7E2RN02ItFqopwGBDnG5AFqo7E2RN02IcFqpAd5dVdaH0NZgfy0Mzm1wwwwwwwDzmxwwwwwww1FqnN0bI/opendoc.pdf

interesting document (see pages 120-150 ish).

NB:  Don.t forget the displaced people forced from Kosovo into surrounding countries.

 

Offline karajorma

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Link doesn't work Aldo
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

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Offline aldo_14

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Arse.

 

Offline aldo_14

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right  - had to upload this thing tio my own webspace

http://www.cis.strath.ac.uk/~awhite/pish/opendoc.pdf

 

Offline Rictor

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Offline Bobboau

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you know all these conspericy theorys about why NATO bombed Serbia always fall flat for me when I think about one thing,
why is Serbia important?
why would it would be something to bother bombing?
it's (well was) a small part of a small fedration ('was' indicateing that the federation is now just two states) with little if any major world economic/military power, and little if any natural recorces. you can say that Clinton bombed it do distract from his domestic problems, and ok I could by that, but why was he asked to do it in the first place by the varius European nations?

is there some place that has a consice record of all UN votes, i.e. wich nations were in suport of wich resolutions?
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DEUTERONOMY 22:11
Thou shalt not wear a garment of diverse sorts, [as] of woollen and linen together