[TrashMan]

I stand to my claim that no mech/herc or bipedal machine or creature can retain balance after suddenly loosing it's leg.

It's simple enough to test. Let your friend knock one of your feet under you. Even if you know that attack is coming, you simply cannot position and compensate properly or fast enough.
Any mech that loses it's leg is virtually useless. It can't get up once it falls, even orienting itself becomes difficult, if not impossible.

[NGTM-1R]

It doesn't have to get up to shoot.

[TrashMan]

It has to be able to face it's enemy to shoot.
If it falls face down or to the side, how is it supposed to turn? Not to mention that the fall would probably end up damaging the weapons, bending barrels and stuff.

[Colonol Dekker]

Not to mention the pilot braining himself on the dashboard lol.
 
Gotta say though I beat prometheus by taking his legs out. In an outrider emancipator

[General Battuta]

It has to be able to face it's enemy to shoot.
If it falls face down or to the side, how is it supposed to turn? Not to mention that the fall would probably end up damaging the weapons, bending barrels and stuff.

It can perform as well as a tank with a broken track - arguably better, since it can turn and orients weapons by pushing itself around with its arms.

[TrashMan]

It can perform as well as a tank with a broken track - arguably better, since it can turn and orients weapons by pushing itself around with its arms.

What arms? Most mecha don't have "arms" - just cannons. And a mech has to deal with damage from the explosion that knocked out it's arm and the fall.

What the hell will a Timberwolf do when it falls? nuttin', that's what.

[Ace]

Not to mention two ELF2s at point blank range would vaporize even the Cerberus 100 ton Cybrid HERC, try that with two PPCs, it will barely do **** to anything bigger than a Medium.

You realize that's an argument for me, not against, right? Because an ELF is a PPC on a string, and thus has severe range issues. Likewise to Ace. They function under the exact same principles, so anything the ELF can do that the PPC can't has to chalked up to crappy HERC design.

Or ELFs are just that awesome

[General Battuta]

It can perform as well as a tank with a broken track - arguably better, since it can turn and orients weapons by pushing itself around with its arms.

What arms? Most mecha don't have "arms" - just cannons. And a mech has to deal with damage from the explosion that knocked out it's arm and the fall.

What the hell will a Timberwolf do when it falls? nuttin', that's what.

No, all 'Mechs have arms. You can check the record sheets. Some of them are just big guns, some have hands, it varies.

Some mechs don't have upper arm or lower arm actuators, which impose penalties on the piloting checks required to move while down, but they can all stand back up again rules-wise.

So the Timberwolf would, uh, be fine.

[Grizzly]

...

Alright. The ceiling has blood spatters all over it now. Jumped too high.

[headdie]

It can perform as well as a tank with a broken track - arguably better, since it can turn and orients weapons by pushing itself around with its arms.

What arms? Most mecha don't have "arms" - just cannons. And a mech has to deal with damage from the explosion that knocked out it's arm and the fall.

What the hell will a Timberwolf do when it falls? nuttin', that's what.

No, all 'Mechs have arms. You can check the record sheets. Some of them are just big guns, some have hands, it varies.

Some mechs don't have upper arm or lower arm actuators, which impose penalties on the piloting checks required to move while down, but they can all stand back up again rules-wise.

So the Timberwolf would, uh, be fine.

Atlas has upper and independent lower arms and hands, some of the books refer to attachable hand actuators

[General Battuta]

I just said exactly that. Upper arm actuators are, I believe, mandatory, but lower arm actuators and hand actuators are present on some 'Mechs but not others. I believe you can even attach hand actuators to OmniMechs using their pod system, so you could put hands on a Timber Wolf if you wanted.

[TrashMan]

No, all 'Mechs have arms. You can check the record sheets. Some of them are just big guns, some have hands, it varies.

Some mechs don't have upper arm or lower arm actuators, which impose penalties on the piloting checks required to move while down, but they can all stand back up again rules-wise.

So the Timberwolf would, uh, be fine.

I couldn't care less what the rules say, cause they mean nothing really.
The only mech that could get up and at least marginalyl useful would be a almost completley humanoid one.

The Timberwolf has bird legs with very thin and exposed upper joints, and it's arms are two thin tubes that have a big cannon attached. They look like they would span right off by a light breeze - them holding up the 70 ton mech?  

A slowly crawing mech is virtually useless. It's a sitting duck with a big "shoot me" sign painted on. Whoever blew off it's leg is near, so unless the mech can get up or face it's opponent yesterday, then it's more or less doomed.


http://th01.deviantart.com/fs6/300W/i/2005/023/4/4/BattleMech_MadCat_by_SDouglas.jpg

I really have trouble seeing this thing stand up without a leg.

[General Battuta]

If your argument is that a 'Mech is more vulnerable and less useful with a leg gone, sure. It's in exactly the same position as a tank with a cracked track, except that it can still use its other limbs to reposition itself.

And yeah, a legged 'Mech is pretty much doomed. What's the point again?

My earlier point was that 'Mechs can stand up with both their legs intact after falling. They can't stand up with one leg gone (the rules are pretty explicit about that too), unless it's a quad.

[Colonol Dekker]

It makes me smile because both views are moot when applied to elementals or cybrid humanoids like (forgot what his name is) from vengeance.

[Mika]

13 pages of discussion  ?

Mechs are much more popular than I ever thought. Or then we have a couple of very enthusiastic persons filling all the 10 pages.

[NGTM-1R]

And yeah, a legged 'Mech is pretty much doomed. What's the point again?

He doesn't really have one. The point is that a 'Mech is able to continue operating in that condition and a HERC is not.

[General Battuta]

Ah, right, that's where this came from. Gotcha.

Yes, that is true. And while legged 'Mechs are generally mission-kills, you can still prop yourself up and fire arm-mounted or torso-mounted weapons. That can make a big difference in a situation where a single 'golden BB" could crack a reactor casing or touch off ammo.

[Scotty]

Or better yet, when playing a double-blind game and the other player doesn't know that it just got legged and falls behind a hill or something.  I pity the poor sod who rounds the hill and gets a face full of pain from a legged Atlas.  Or a hunchback.

[TrashMan]

And yeah, a legged 'Mech is pretty much doomed. What's the point again?

He doesn't really have one. The point is that a 'Mech is able to continue operating in that condition and a HERC is not.

Only if your definition of "operating" is equal to trashing on the ground.

Well, technicly, a war machine is still operation as long as it can fire. If one of your weapons is still functional and you can wiggle the mech a bit, then I'd guess it will still be "operational".
A HERC doesn't have a rotating torso, but it's weapons can track and swiwel, so a Mech would be somewhat better at trashing around until it faces an opponent.

Either way, sucks for the both of them.

[Colonol Dekker]

You mean thrashing... Don't you.

I'm for HERCs in the resilience stakes, but not in the "can survive on one foot" stakes.