[Overlord]

He's right the readme doesn't say, but it's obvious that they belong in the data/maps/ folder.

[JR2000Z]

Really?

I've been putting them into the data/effects folder.

[Lightspeed]

The only files that actually make a difference are the animated glowmaps. They will ONLY work from /data/maps.

Everything else can be placed pretty much anywhere.

[DaBrain]

I think you should convert all your glowmaps to EFF DXT1 or DXT5. Depending on the size of the used map in-game (I.e streched, or small map - big ship).

I think the quality loss will be almost nonexistent, but the performance gain will be great.
Which will on the other hand make it possible to use higher res maps for some(!) ships.

[Lightspeed]

Not a good idea, I'm afraid.

It would not save memory, and the compression would look horrible on glowmaps.

Anyway, the new builds will be up shortly, and huge they are indeed. Includes nifty improved Deimos textures (in preparation to support Bob's new version of the model), as well as textures for practically all of the remaining shivan capital ships. 92+ new files

I'm afraid I don't have any good screenshots this week, though

[DaBrain]

Originally posted by Lightspeed
Not a good idea, I'm afraid.

It would not save memory, and the compression would look horrible on glowmaps.

 

Well, DXT5 doesn't look that bad. I don't even think it will look worse. (Grainy gradients, that's all. They don't have to be smooth anyway.)

And you can decrease even the filesize by using DXT1.


ANIs are ok for some effects, but will be too much of a performance hit when placed on half of the ships. I'll grow to a bigger problem as the glowLT pak grows.

[terren]

now I fear the Sath...   I'm going to need these when your're done. -ING dialup

[Lightspeed]

Originally posted by DaBrain


Well, DXT5 doesn't look that bad. I don't even think it will look worse. (Grainy gradients, that's all. They don't have to be smooth anyway.)

And you can decrease even the filesize by using DXT1.


ANIs are ok for some effects, but will be too much of a performance hit when placed on half of the ships. I'll grow to a bigger problem as the glowLT pak grows.

You know, they use less space than a comparative DDS. "Grainy gradients" isnt really the problem with DDS, it's the cursed compression artifacts. They're incredibly linked to the size, so while I can use 128² ANI animations, I would have to use (at least) 512² DDS animations to have the same quality.

And see here:

512x512 DXT5, 32bit image, 39 frames ~ 9,75 MB
512x512 ANI, (8bit - duh), 39 frames ~ 9,75 MB

Notice something?

And at the same texture quality... :

512x512 DXT5, 39 frames ~ 9,75 MB
256x256 ANI, 39 frames ~ 2,4 MB

And that's 256², we might even go down to 128².

Colour evaluation:

DXT-Format:
- gradients are messy
- colour loss through artifacts

ANI-Format:
- Colour loss = 0 (yes, zero. for the shivan glowmaps, anyway)
- perfect gradients

Other than that, I do NOT keep the ANIs linked to the main texture size, but down to levels around what a normal texture would occupy.

[Trivial Psychic]

Originally posted by Lightspeed
And see here:

512x512 DXT5, 32bit image, 39 frames ~ 9,75 MB
512x512 ANI, (8bit - duh), 39 frames ~ 9,75 MB

Notice something?

Is that original filesizes, or in-memory size?

[Edit]
Possible oversight on your latest ShineLT.  In the pre-existing glowmaps (before your latest upgrades) for canon ships, the texture CorvSTile3A had a glowmap for it.  I noticed that you didn't include one in your pack.  Was that an oversight on your part, or should there not have been a glowmap on this texture in the first place?  Should I be deleting this file from my directory?
[/Edit]

Later!

[DaBrain]

But using only ANIs for the animated glow maps will make it unplayable on mid-range systems soon.


And BTW...

Extracted frame:


Now the S3TC (DXT1) DDS frame (eight times smaller than uncompressed):


Now the PCX frame, as you suggested downscaled to the half image size (128²) and rescaled to original size (256²) for direct comparesion:


And also keep in mind that even a 128² ANI will affect the preformance more than a 256² EFF.

Originally posted by Trivial Psychic

Is that original filesizes, or in-memory size?

DDS can be loaded directly into memory.

AFAIK ANIs are treated as 16-bit format. That would cause twice the memory use.


Edit:

Originally posted by Lightspeed

And see here:

512x512 DXT5, 32bit image, 39 frames ~ 9,75 MB
512x512 ANI, (8bit - duh), 39 frames ~ 9,75 MB

Notice something?

And at the same texture quality... :

512x512 DXT5, 39 frames ~ 9,75 MB
256x256 ANI, 39 frames ~ 2,4 MB

Look at this one (S3TC DXT1 4,5 MB 512²):


The quality is better than lower sized ANIs. And the difference to ANIs with the same size is not noticeable (@ half of the memory usage!).

And of course  the performance is better.

Here is the EFF version of a shivan glowmap.
http://www.8ung.at/dabrain/fighter10-01a-glow.rar

Originally posted by Lightspeed


Colour evaluation:

DXT-Format:
- gradients are messy
 

Well the base and shine map are compressed. So smooth gradients in glowmaps will look grainy anyway, as they are placed over these maps.

Originally posted by Lightspeed

- colour loss through artifacts
 

Some ships will suffer this problem. On most ships it's not even visible. (Even less when animated.)

[Lightspeed]

ANI memory consumption == DDS memory consumption.

But hey, we'll see when I'm through. After all, that's what the Devbuilds are for. None of the high-res glowmaps is lost.

[DaBrain]

Originally posted by Lightspeed
ANI memory consumption == DDS memory consumption.
 

Nope, my Basilik map adaption (DDS) is @ half ANI memory consumption. I don't see any quality difference in-game.

[Lightspeed]

I don't think so, but let's not stray off topic too far

As I said, nothing is lost, and we'll be able to go with the most efficient way in the end anyway.

[redmenace]

It is already unplayable on midrange systems. I think the CPU consumtion is higher.

[DaBrain]

Originally posted by Lightspeed
I don't think so, but let's not stray off topic too far

As I said, nothing is lost, and we'll be able to go with the most efficient way in the end anyway.

Only one last time.

Try the glow map I've uploaded. The in-game memory use is half of an ANI with the same res. (ANI ~9 MB DDS ~4,5 MB). The performance is better. The qulaity difference not even visible in-game.


EFF is the better solution by far. You shouldn't relaese ANIs anymore. (Well of course you can change it afterwards, but that means many people have to wait for that time.)

If you still won't go for EFF, I'll convert your files, if you don't mind.

[GT-Keravnos]

Well, it is our duty to NEVER let this one out of the first page. EVER!

[Singh]

ook. its sunday singapore time, saturday US. but still no new build?

[Lightspeed]

Redmenace: Hence the reason why animated glowmaps are only suggested for high-end systems.

DaB: You absolutely sure about those memory figures? ANIs only take up 8-bit memory as far as I'm aware.

Singh: Yes, well...

This week has been about pure horror for me  I've had four exams (two of which were on friday) and I'm generelly rather busy atm. But yes, despite eviiiiil real life trying to zteal my precious time...





Sixty-four new files, including quite a bit of high-res work.

[DaBrain]

Taylor wrote this:

If PCX is used as 16-bit format, ANI could be too.

Originally posted by taylor


@DaBrain: PCX, by default, is made 16-bit even if the palette is 8-bit.  I want to allow 8-bit EFFs but it's not high on my todo list at the moment.  "Enable 32bit textures" isn't going to help any since it only allows the use of JPG and TGA, nothing more.  "Compress PCX" just turns a PCX into a DDS file so you would be better off just using DDS in the first place.  It only works with D3D too so OGL users wouldn't get any help from it.

[Lightspeed]

Hmm, I thought PCX is, ANI not.