Author Topic: BP: War in Heaven discussion  (Read 542288 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Androgeos Exeunt

  • Captain Oblivious
  • 212
  • Prevents attraction.
    • Wordpress.com Blog
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
It's just strange that the UEF's elite paramilitary force, of all things, is listed as a "primary" reason for going to war, since the GTVA's main stated reason is that the UEF is incapable of defending itself from the Shivans.

Is it possible that their findings on the Fedayeen suggest a faction that may see reason to not stand up to the Shivans (a la HoL)?
My blog

Quote: Wednesday, 6 November 2019, 1845hrs UTC, #gaming
The_E
behold the power of this fully armed and operational recluse

z64555
but does it destroy planets with a turbo laser

 

Offline -Norbert-

  • 211
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
I'm not quite sure what you mean.
First off who are "they".
Your post sounds as if "they" are the GTVA. But why would the invasion in Sol, which was at least partially done to preserve the ability to defend against the Shivans, hint at the existence of a pro Shivan faction within the GTVA?

Or do you mean the GTVA fears the Fedayeen might be pro Shivan?

 

Offline Androgeos Exeunt

  • Captain Oblivious
  • 212
  • Prevents attraction.
    • Wordpress.com Blog
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Or do you mean the GTVA fears the Fedayeen might be pro Shivan?

This.
My blog

Quote: Wednesday, 6 November 2019, 1845hrs UTC, #gaming
The_E
behold the power of this fully armed and operational recluse

z64555
but does it destroy planets with a turbo laser

 

Offline Liberator

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 210
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Why in God's Name would they be pro shivan?
So as through a glass, and darkly
The age long strife I see
Where I fought in many guises,
Many names, but always me.

There are only 10 types of people in the world , those that understand binary and those that don't.

 

Offline Iss Mneur

  • 210
  • TODO:
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Why in God's Name would they be pro shivan?
Because they think the Shivans are destroyers of those that destroy? Thus the Shivans would save the UEF (and possibly the Vasudans) from the GTA.
"I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by." -Douglas Adams
wxLauncher 0.9.4 public beta (now with no config file editing for FRED) | wxLauncher 2.0 Request for Comments

  

Offline T-LoW

  • 28
  • Planet Earth is blue and theres nothing left to do
    • German Freespace-Galaxy
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
I expect exactly this. Shivans fighting for ya. And you are full of joy 'cause BAM! getsome, damn TEVs! And then in the end - shazam! - twist and you are a pilot on the GTVAs side and you feel absolutely helpless, because this time the Shivans finish the job and there's nothing you can do but go to the UEF or die by the hand of the great destroyers. All hail to the shivans! :eek:
The german Freespace-Galaxy

"There was a time before we were born. If someone asks this is where I'll be."

 

Offline Shivan Hunter

  • 210
  • FRED needs lambdas!
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
I... honestly don't think the Shivans will be defending anyone. That's not how they do things; defending is preserving.

They are like us. They destroy.

 

Offline Liberator

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 210
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
The. Shivans. KILL. everything.

This is their defining characteristic, they are merciless and without consideration for anything.  Being pro Shivan is akin to killing your familiy and then yourself.  They cannot be "made friends with".
So as through a glass, and darkly
The age long strife I see
Where I fought in many guises,
Many names, but always me.

There are only 10 types of people in the world , those that understand binary and those that don't.

 

Offline T-LoW

  • 28
  • Planet Earth is blue and theres nothing left to do
    • German Freespace-Galaxy
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Not friends but: "We have business to do with those GTVA... just don't get in our way and you won't get hurt." ... but probably because the UEF are terrans, too, the shivans will wipe them out aswell... just to get sure :nervous:
The german Freespace-Galaxy

"There was a time before we were born. If someone asks this is where I'll be."

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
The. Shivans. KILL. everything.

The Ancients and Bosch didn't think so. But they might have been wrong.

Bear in mind, though, that FreeSpace 2 was almost entirely about one man's quest to make an alliance with the Shivans.

 
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
And how did that turn out for the guys that went with him? :p
17:37:02   Quanto: I want to have sexual intercourse with every space elf in existence
17:37:11   SpardaSon21: even the males?
17:37:22   Quanto: its not gay if its an elf

[21:51] <@Droid803> I now realize
[21:51] <@Droid803> this will be SLIIIIIGHTLY awkward
[21:51] <@Droid803> as this rich psychic girl will now be tsundere for a loli.
[21:51] <@Droid803> OH WELLL.

See what you're missing in #WoD and #Fsquest?

[07:57:32] <Caiaphas> inspired by HerraTohtori i built a supermaneuverable plane in ksp
[07:57:43] <Caiaphas> i just killed my pilots with a high-g maneuver
[07:58:19] <Caiaphas> apparently people can't take 20 gees for 5 continuous seconds
[08:00:11] <Caiaphas> the plane however performed admirably, and only crashed because it no longer had any guidance systems

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
And how did that turn out for the guys that went with him? :p

We don't know, but it's tangential to the falsified assertion that the Shivans KILL EVERYTHING (assuming immediate values of kill).

 

Offline Liberator

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 210
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
The. Shivans. KILL. everything.

The Ancients and Bosch didn't think so. But they might have been wrong.
The Ancients home planet and all their colonies were burned.  Bosch's quest led to the death of 99% of his crew and a civil war that led to God knows how many other deaths.  He's not a visionary, he's a mass murderer.
So as through a glass, and darkly
The age long strife I see
Where I fought in many guises,
Many names, but always me.

There are only 10 types of people in the world , those that understand binary and those that don't.

 

Offline Scotty

  • 1.21 gigawatts!
  • 211
  • Guns, guns, guns.
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
YAY ALTERNATE CHARACTER INTERPRETATION!

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
The. Shivans. KILL. everything.

The Ancients and Bosch didn't think so. But they might have been wrong.
The Ancients home planet and all their colonies were burned.  Bosch's quest led to the death of 99% of his crew and a civil war that led to God knows how many other deaths.  He's not a visionary, he's a mass murderer.

That has nothing to do with what we're talking about. The Ancients believed the Shivans only killed sinners; Bosch believed - no matter whether he was a mass murderer or not - that the Shivans could be allied with.

That's all that's relevant to the question of whether the Shivans KILL EVERYTHING; some parties disagree.

 

Offline -Norbert-

  • 211
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
[...]  Bosch's quest led to the death of 99% of his crew and a civil war that led to God knows how many other deaths.  He's not a visionary, he's a mass murderer.
History has a way of ignoring unpleasant aspects of important leaders. There are plenty of examples in real history.

If it turns out that Bosch's actions saved Humanity from destruction then he will be considered a hero (or course only if Mankind ever learns about it - not if the Shivans simply stay away). If the Shivans continue to attack the GTVA then history will remember him as a deluded wannabe messias and mass murderer.
The perverse thing is, if he really saved Humanity, then the hundred thousands of death' he caused will have saved billions thus giving those death' meaning in a way.

 

Offline Scotty

  • 1.21 gigawatts!
  • 211
  • Guns, guns, guns.
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Yeah.  'Cuz we really want to get into an "Ends justify the means" argument here.

 

Offline -Norbert-

  • 211
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
You're right we don't and I wasn't suggesting that, just mentioning how history likes to gloss over everthing in a nice sheen if it's a few centuries in the past.

 

Offline Useful Dave

  • 24
  • I'm Useful
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
I've not been on for abit, but here's two things I've been sitting on trying to figure out for awhile, someone might've got there first though.

A: The UEF Alarm klaxon. Why does it revert to the GTVA one (as seen in AoA) rather than that used by the Renjian at the end of AoA?

B: In Delenda Est, if I remember correctly the Carthage 'snags on Jupiters gravity well', pulling it out of subspace. If it is incapable of re-entering, why are it's escorts capable of jumping out alongside it while the other ships have to climb free?

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
I've not been on for abit, but here's two things I've been sitting on trying to figure out for awhile, someone might've got there first though.

A: The UEF Alarm klaxon. Why does it revert to the GTVA one (as seen in AoA) rather than that used by the Renjian at the end of AoA?

Many of the War in Heaven missions were finished before the AoA Director's Cut was polished up and shipped out. That alarm siren was a late touch in AoA, and we never got around to putting it in WiH. It was meant as more of a 'pay attention to this message!' sound than anything else. But making consistency there would be a nice touch for a re-release.

Quote
B: In Delenda Est, if I remember correctly the Carthage 'snags on Jupiters gravity well', pulling it out of subspace. If it is incapable of re-entering, why are it's escorts capable of jumping out alongside it while the other ships have to climb free?

The Carthage only escaped the Antenor ambush by using its sprint drive (similar to, but inferior to, the Atreus's model.) It had no charged and plotted subspace jumps during Delenda Est; it was working on getting its drives back into any usable shape (think of them as exhausted after a series of strenuous jumps). Its escorts, on the other hand, were faring better in that regard.